I think it also has a lot more to do with Arab identity. Osama bin Laden hates the secular governments of Arab nations easily as much as he hates the US. They were afraid of him long before we were. He sees the Arab world united as an Islamic empire. Others prefer secular states ruled by totalitarian regimes. What is most foreign to them is the Western way of life that is slowly seeping in, and that people like bin Laden want to protect against.

I think instead of Christianity vs. Islam, you have to look at this as an Arab war for self-identity. Democracy is as much a part of this as Christianity, with many Arabs hating the former as much or more than the latter. If they give people individual freedom, it allows them to be sacreligious, and allows them to discard those parts of their culture they deem inconsequential. That is too much for people like bin Laden to stomach.

We have seen the same kind of thing with Waco and Oklahoma City, here. Our culture changes, and sometimes those left behind can't tolerate it and respond violently.

But dont you think the political and economic divide in the world has some role in this.

On the whole ,nice post, BS.


Keep me posted.

I think those are secondary. These folks have an idea of what life is like, much like ultra-conservatives in the US, and how French culture-protectionists have in France. France is a golden example, really, though no one feels strongly enough about it, and they don't have religious precedent to kill people over it as Islam does.

To me economics and politics are the conduits through which this cultural blending is occuring. People like bin Laden see the erosion of this heritage as a erosion of Arabic power, which is held in place by these cultural norms. Look at Islamic law, for instance. You could say he supports it because he thinks it is holy, sure, but it also ensures a concrete preservation of the culture, and harshly, barbarically punishes those who seek to change it or jeopardize the power of those in charge.

I don't think Islamic law is as cut and dried as many make it out to be. Recent publications by imams in Indonesia and other more secular Islamic societies have proposed some extremely "radical" ideas, like universal education for both men and women, an end to enforcement of the hijab, and some quite interesting arguments for democracy with copious reference to the Qur'an, good, sound and unfortunately in some cases unsound haddith.

Islam is undergoing an ideological revolution at the moment. Whilst the troubles in the Middle East are providing a significant stumbling block to a more widespread knowledge of the new ideas, they do exist and they are having increasing influence. Muslim leaders like Gus Dur/Abdurrahman Wahid (who was also incidentally President of Indonesia for a short while) publicly advocated the divergence of church and state, particularly during the New Order period but these ideas have continued to some extent even today. Cultural (ie nonpolitical) Islam, as most famously proposed by Nurcholish Masjid (sp?) became a powerful force for liberalisation throughout Southeast Asia.

Islam is not of itself the problem here, just as Christianity is not the cause of closemindedness or intolerance amongst some in the west. Unfortunately just like every other religion it can be used to justify violence and evil, but in reality the issues in the Muslim world are more concerned with social, economic and cultural problems than with Islam. Islam merely provides a forum for their debate. EDIT: BakerStreet's point about Arabs is interesting, but I confess I don't know enough about the region to make an intelligent argument about it, so I'll stick to what I know.

Yes Islam or Christianity is not the issue here. The issue is who controls economic and political hegenomy in the world at present. Any religion can be used for good or bad purposes but does it augur well for the world, if power is concentrated in just a supermighty superpower, who does not want little people having dear own 'little dreams' ?

I have lived in Muslim controlled Countries. their religon is one of hate. They arrive in other Countries only cause chaos at a later time.

" if power is concentrated in just a supermighty superpower, who does not want little people having dear own 'little dreams' "

It certainly is disconcerting to the handful of petty thugs that control the handful of nations that churn out terrorists like an assembly line. Radical Islam is great for them, it keeps them in power. I think it is laughable to think that the leaders of Arab countries live in their palaces, make billions in the face of their people's poverty, and you say we are the ones "who does not want little people having dear own 'little dreams' "...

If the Arabs want to make a war with the Christians (which includes me)... BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You need not be so emotionally suracharged, Repub. Take it easy. Shanti.

TAKE IT EASY!!!!!!!! The Arabs have been killing innocent Christians all for Allah and Muhammed!!!! The Arabs would not stand a chance if they declared a "Holy War"!! BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If economics had a damn thing to do with this then Central America would be producing more terrorists that any area except Africa. This war has been raging for as long as there has been organized religion.

This war has been raging for as long as there has been organized religion.

I agree.

The Arabs have been killing innocent Christians all for Allah and Muhammed!!!!

While this may be true, don't you remember your history? What about the Crusades, the Inquisition, and WWII Germany?
Christians have been just as willing to fight someone over disagreeing with their beliefs as Muslims, or Jews.

"While this may be true, don't you remember your history? What about the Crusades, the Inquisition, and WWII Germany? Christians have been just as willing to fight someone over disagreeing with their beliefs as Muslims, or Jews."

You should also remember that Muslims had invaded Spain, etc. People tend to think the Crusades were one-sided. Hardly. Expansion was on the mind of both sides. The Crusades was an abuse of the Christian religion. "Imperialization" of the Islamic religion was undertaken by Mohammed himself, and is considered a plan-of-action by people like bin Laden and other radicals today.

As well, the statement about WWII is not entirely valid; that was not a CHRISTIAN campaign; in fact, many (admittedly the minority) Christians in Germany opposed the Nazi regime and some even died in the concentration camps.

And what of the Christian young men and women that were among those who came from countries all around the globe to fight the nazi regime? The fact that they are forgotten in your sweeping indictment of "Christians" says much.

If you look at Hilter's occultism, and the inner spirituality they were trying to build arround the SS cult, I think you'll find that there wasn't anything Christian about Naziism, either. There were some anti-semitic elements in the Catholic church that sympathised with Nazis, but Nazism was not a Christian movement, not in the least.

Anyway, I think it would be pretty futile to start comparing modern Islam and modern Christianity in terms of anti-Semitism.